RECENT USA TODAY INTERVIEW
Warren on hope, compassion,
megachurches, politics, and criticism
When
mega-pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren goes into "the writing
cave" to write a book, he goes "dark." No interviews. No
disruptions. No public political forums or TV appearances or hot-issue quotes
to rile the blogosphere.
But
Warren came out of hibernation for an interview Friday to talk about real hope
when things are "really bad," and to respond to questions on a number
hot topics
Warren
will have his first major book, The
Hope You Need, (in stores next year) since the seven-year-old stunner The
Purpose-Driven Life.
The
idea for the new book, dissecting the Lord's Prayer, came when he gave the
invocation at Obama's inauguration. As he ended with the Lord's Prayer, he
heard the murmur of the crowd praying aloud with him. "In that moment, people laid aside all their differences and were
unified by a simple prayer. An atheist on the street told me he prayed it! I
write when I feel a message is needed by others , not out of my own need to
write, so I've waited 7 years, (which is a good biblical number!), to write
again. I wasn't in any hurry. But I felt this is the time for this message."
ON HOPE
& THE LORD'S PRAYER:
"In my research, I discovered that
the Lord's Prayer had never been
prayed at an inauguration. Well, I deeply believe that the Lord's Prayer
contains all the answers to every one of our basic needs and problems. It deals with loneliness. insecurity,
confusion, purpose, worry, guilt, resentment, fear, and much more. It's a
prayer filled with hope. "If we needed something, I'm confident Jesus would
have added it into the prayer. It's got everything we need in it.".
ON THE
RECESSION "I see more people in more pain
today than at any time in the 30 years I've been a pastor. I've taught this
prayer many times but never have people needed it more. You're looking at 10%
to 12% of California out of work. In Michigan it's 15%. I see white collar
folks coming to our Food Pantry. People are in real need of
encouragement."
ON THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OPTIMISM & HOPE: "Cornell West got be thinking about the difference
between hope and optimism. I' believe they are not the same. Optimism can be
pretending that things are better than they really are. Hope never deny
reality. Hope says, 'Yes It's bad, it's really bad, but there is a better
future coming.' I believe hope is
theological while optimism is psychological. Optimism can pretend. Hope is
real"
Warren
has trained nearly half a million pastors in 162 countries so he had a lot to
say in response to my story last week on the nation's largest churches. Outreach
magazine currently lists Saddleback Community Church at No. 6 on the top 100
churches, based on weekend worship totals. But Warren believes attendance is
not the total picture of the health of a church and offers several other
measurements as more important. To him, Saddleback's 22,418 weekend worship
attendance is just the tip of the iceberg.
ON LARGE
CHURCHES: "The problem I've
always had with these annual lists is that they only pay attention to weekend
attendance, which is one of the least important factors in judging church
vitality. A crowd is not a church! Attendance is just the tip of the
iceberg The church must be
evaluated on so much more than just filling seats for attendance."
"Our
network of churches focuses on 5 other measurements of health instead.
We're not satisfied with spectators. Our goal is to turn them into
participators. We turn consumers into contributors, and members into ministers
with an intentional and measurable process (which we teach to other churches.)
1. Evangelism outreach: How many unbelievers have come to Christ and
been baptized? In our case, over 27,000 adult converts have been baptized at
Saddleback, likely more than any other church in America.
2. Small Group Bible Study &
Fellowship:. How
many small groups do you have and how many people are participating in
weekly group Bible study and fellowship? Without this, you have a
crowd but not real community. In
our case, Saddleback has over 4,500 small group Bible studies
meeting everywhere This is our
real strength: Bible study. If I were to drop dead right now, Saddleback would
keep growing because it is decentralized around these groups instead of centralized around a weekend
preacher
3.
Service/Lay Ministry; How many
people are using their gifts and talents in serving the needs of the
community? At Saddleback our Life Development Course (Classes
101-401) help our members identify
their "S.H.A.P.E." for service and prepare them to serve in our community.
We currently have around 20,000
members serving in over 300 church and community ministries.
4.
Global Mission:
How many people have been commissioned and sent out to represent Jesus in the
world? The Great Commission says "Go to EVERY NATION and make
disciples...." so at Saddleback, we take that literally! By the end
of 2010 we will be the first local church in history to have sent
our members as missionaries to literally every nation. There are
195 recognized nations in the world-(193 are a part of the UN. North Korea and
Bosnia are excluded). Since we began the P.E.A.C.E. Plan,
Saddleback has sent out 8, 742
members to 137 countries. We have 58 nations left to go to and will easily reach our goal by the end
of next year, which is the 30th
anniversary of our church
5. Generosity to others. Is our giving per person rising every
year? We believe generosity is the evidence of love and spiritual
maturity. Kay and I try to model this by giving away 90% and living on 10%
of book income. I don't take salary and I don't accept honoraria personally for
speaking, Saddleback members gave $1.6 million to help Tsunami
victims, $1.7 million to help Katrina victims, and we fed 42,000
homeless people 3 meals a day for 40 days during 40 days of Community. It is a
very unselfish church. We could have built a huge auditorium but we have other
priorities."
Warren
has no plans to burst back into politically-fired headlines, however. When
politicians call him, he says, he never get involved in policy. Instead he
talks with leaders about their personal stress, leadership style, family and other non-political areas where he
might be able to encourage them.
ON
POLITICS: "Most people don't realize, I
really have no faith in politics. I'm not a politician. If I thought you could
change human hearts by laws, I would but I don't believe that at all politics
is always downstream from culture. By the time you make a law about something,
you're reacting, not acting. It's already in the water. I'd rather shape the
culture." This has always been Warren's stance, however it hasn't kept him
out of hot water. Friday, he took a moment to clarify some of last winter's
headline moments.
ON HEALTH
CARE: "The role of the church and the
government are fundamentally different. The church must always show compassion,
always. In Psalm 72, Solomon
prays for power and fame then says the purpose of influence is to speak up for
those who have no influence - and of the groups he mentions is the immigrant.
He doesn't delineate between legal and illegal. As a Christian, on a personal
level, I'm supposed to help
everyone in need. A good Samaritan doesn't ask the injured person first, 'Are you legal or illegal?' You just
help them. But the government's role is different. They have to maintain order
and enforce the law."
ON GAY
MARRIAGE: In December'; interview with Steven Waldman did he really mean to
equate gay marriage with pedophilia and incest? "No," he says, "I just blew the question, and the follow up, too. I
wasn't listening and I answered to a question he wasn't asking. I do not
believe that sex between consenting gay adults is the same as pedophilia or
incest, which are criminal activities. I
apologized for my mistake but I did not apologize for my opposition to redefining marriage. I believe the word
"marriage" should be reserved
for a one-man-one-woman covenant before God."
Did
he campaign against gay marriage during the lead up to the Proposition 8 vote
that overturned it's legalization in California? That would depend on how you
define "campaigning."
"The only time I even mentioned it was response to questions by my members a couple days before the
election. In my weekly video or newsletter to my own congregation, I said, that
obviously we oppose the redefinition of
"marriage.' That was only time I mentioned it. I never was involved in
the campaign itself. but after the vote, both sides tried to make me the leader
of the campaign"
In
Warren's opinion, he doesn't consider speaking to his own congregation the same
as campaigning. He was just a pastor sharing Scripture with his flock, even if
his comments went worldwide on line.
I
asked about today's hot topic, health care reform and whether illegal
immigrants could or should get government subsidized insurance coverage. Warren
says, as a Christian and a pastor, his role is simply to care about people who
need care on a personal level. He is skeptical that the government would do a
better job than private groups.
ON CRITICISM:
"I get hit a lot from both sides because
my views don't fit into the classic right/left continuum. I'm neither. My
primary allegiance is to a Kingdom not of this world. I agree with the liberal
emphasis on compassion, justice and equality but I disagree with liberals that government
is the solution to every problem. Typically government run programs are
overreaching and inefficient."